Wednesday, May 27, 2009

Stafford

There was great debate on Stafford being on the list of the TOP 25. So now I have a question for everyone. Instead of UGA spanking Hawaii in 07 , like Pat spanking a jeans shorts gator fan at the cocktail party. UGA beats Ohio St in an ugly 9-6 defensive game in the Championship game to win the title. Does Stafford make the list of your top 25 ?
One game doesn't matter and I would assume that if this hypothetical was real , everyone would have him on the list, correct? Stafford , no matter what, is one of the top 25 players in the last 25 years. Now , what are your thoughts?
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21 comments:

RB said...

Good post - I agree 100%. My top UGA QB's over last 25 years would probably go like this...

1. Greene
2. Stafford
3. Zeier
4. Shockley

Hobnail_Boot said...

Well, I'll take the blame/credit for lighting the Stafford fire down below. It wasn't my intention, but it sparked some interesting debate and now this thoughtful post.

I think right now I'd have him somewhere around 12-15 on a list like this, with top-3 potential if he had stayed one more year and maintained his upward statistical trajectory.

Oh, and this isn't what you asked, but if we didn't blow the doors off of Tosu, we'd be the laughing stock of the SEC.

Otto said...

You make a fair point and I'm sure under that scenario he would be a no brainer(he allready is for most).....the problem is that we DIDN'T win the BCSCG. We had the talent to and I think we would have beat anybody at year end. Why didnt we?? USC and a arse whiping at the hands of UT. I don't blame those games on MS(mostly USC) but how can our offense not show up in knoxville? Where was our leadership from the future #1 pick?? Was he even in Knoxville??? I know I was just not sure if he was.
As I said before, I think that 8 out of 10 Dawg fans would not only put Stafford on the list but probably in the top 5.

My reasons don't have to do with the lack of going to the SECG. Even though the two starting QB's before he got here went 3 times. It has more to do with his very untimely INT's in some of our biggest games.....not to mention he throws the worse fade route in all of football(jk).


My top UGA QB's over the last 25 yrs.

1. DJ
2. Greene
3. Zeier
4. Stafford
5. Reggie Ball

Otto said...

Hobnail,

Great point!! I was thinking the same thing. If we only scored 9 on OSU it would actually make MS look worse.....lol.....but I would give a golden hamster for that to have happened.

j.leonardjr said...

I know I made some negative comments about his decision making and drive on an early post but for the record I would have him on the list of Best 25 over the last 25 years. When I mentioned him not being an all timer I was referring to overall in college football and how things might turn out in the NFL. I think his physical talents and success he had while at UGA easily put him on the list this blog has been compiling.

Bop said...

Mid 20's at best for me. Yes he was in knoxville otto...just throwing sh*t up.

Good player with a big arm that reminds me of the basketball players that go to tech. They show up with all kinds of hype and by the time they leave, they have won nothing of significance...but they end up a lottery pick!

I look forward to the next phase of Georgia football and hope 7 has a good pro career.

JJ said...

Stafford's numbers in Knoxville, 2007: 16-33, 2 TDs, 1 interception

Moreno's numbers in Knoxville, 2007: 13 carries, 30 yards, 0 TDs

Some offensive stats for the University of Tennessee in Knoxville, 2007:
-190 yards rushing
-18 of 23 passing, 221 yards
-Arian Foster 6 yards per carry

Translation: pick another game if you're looking for one to blame on Stafford. There are plenty more out there for you to choose from. Knoxville in 2007 is not a good example.

Also interesting to me that all of a sudden we're blaming the lack of development in Tech basketball players on the players themselves. I've always thought it was the coach's fault over there. Of course you could be saying that the UGA coaches are somehow at fault for Stafford's lack of development (however "lack of development" is defined - considering his stats got better every year he was in Athens.)

RB said...

Good points, JJ...

Laughing at the lack of development argument also - he improved from year to year AND developed enough through 3 years to be the #1 overall pick in the draft.

Bop said...

More proof that he couldn't put a team on his back and win a game when Georgia needed him to. Imagine if 24 had more games like that. '07 Tennessee team was pathetic and you could argue that loss was the most costly in UGA history.

Some want Iverson as the face of the franchise. I'll take Billups.

DRM said...

I think stafford should be on the list as I stated. One of the biggest reasons why he struggles in these conversations is "what could have been". Mel kiper said he would be the #1 pick in the draft before he snapped a ball at uga. Then we have the run in 07 and finish #2 and start 08 #1. And the media was all up our kitchen, but we didn't win any title while other sec teams won national championships. And we hold stafford a little bit responsable for that and that is why I feel some people wouldn't have him on this list. But we all know he is not responsable for either 07 when we were one spot short or 08 where we didn't live up to the expectations.
And by the way , how does otto have Shockley ahead of green , that one really makes no sense.
Top 5
1. Greene
2. Shockley
3. Stafford
3. Zier.

JJ said...

I thought the South Carolina loss in '07 was more costly than Tennessee - and could more easily be blamed on the offense particularly Stafford. Win either of those games and UGA would have been in the SEC title game. But the South Carolina game was in Athens, and the defense actually showed up for that one (until the last 10 minutes of the game.) NOBODY on the roster showed up at Tennessee. UGA looked like they got to the stadium that morning by swimming up the river.

By the way, Moreno had a few games where he didn't show up himself (especially in '08), so I don't cut him any more slack than I do Stafford. Its just that Moreno's big performances were much more magnified than Stafford's were. As we all know, UGA is much more successful when running the ball as opposed to throwing it in under CMR. I thought Stafford did a pretty good job for the most part in "managing the game" when he had to. All he ever did was what he was asked. If CMR was asking him to throw it 35 times a game, it wasn't Stafford's fault.

JJ said...

Stafford and Iverson is a bad comparison, and frankly inappropriate if you ask me. For all Stafford's faults, I never saw him as a "ME, ME" guy. He wanted to win just as much as anybody else. He might have been a victim of circumstance, but he went to the post every day he was at UGA, even though at times he was taking a beating. I'm not sure what more he could have done from a leadership standpoint.

He had a laid-back personality. To be honest, Greene and Shockley were the same way. CMR gave Stafford alot more information to process than he did either one of those 2 guys. I thought he handled it well, and obviously it impressed alot of people at the next level.

Otto said...

I think Knoxville 07 is a good game to pick. I don't care about td passes after the game is out of reach. I remember standing around our car(that was blocked in) at our tailgate spot and watching those 2 tds on tv. Why were we not in the stadium anymore at that point?????I do remember him throwing ducks the entire first half though.

DRM,

I'll take DJ all day long.
As much as I love D. Greene, UGA missed a window of opportunity by not starting DJ for 3 yrs.
How does it not make sense??? It can easily be argued that he was better than ANY qb in UGA history the ONE yr he started.

JJ said...

Like I said, nobody showed up for that game in Knoxville. Including the coaching staff. If someone wants to single out Stafford for that loss, then it is obvious that person has a vendetta against him, and that your opinion of him cannot be considered unbiased. That was a complete team loss. It was not a coincidence that nobody played well in that game. They were unprepared and unmotivated.

JJ said...

By the way, I don't even think this debate is about whether Stafford should be in this Top 25 anymore. It seems to have become about whether or not he is worth a shit in the first place.

Otto said...

Knoxville was a team loss. You are correct about that. It starts at the top(CMR) but it is still up to the players to prepare themselves and be ready to play. Not sure what happen that game but it cost the Dawgnation quite a bit.

I think everybody is nitpicking a little bit......me moreso than anyone. I guess my main point with it is kinda along the line of what Bop said about Iverson and Billups.
I know you think that is a inappropriate comparison but is it really?? You said that MS "wanted to win as bad as everybody" and "went to the post everyday he was at UGA". Well, I think everybody will agree on that and it is not the issue. I don't think you can find more than 10 players in the history of the NBA that want to win as much as Iverson. You also won't find 10 players in the NBA that put thier body on the line everytime they steped on the court more than Iverson. You can pick quite a few things to diss AI on but heart and effort are not two of them.
Even some of the players(Curran) have said there was a lack of leadership in 08.....that is telling in itself.

Anyway this debate is kinda silly and like you said it i making me look like I got a vendetta against him...which I don't. I've probably defended MS more than most here.

JJ said...

My point was that you wouldn't ever see Stafford complaining about going to practice, and wouldn't be likely to see him in a domestic dispute. He's there every day. He just wants to play football.

Worm said...

Matthew Stafford should be on this list. Over the last 25 years, 2 of our best 25 players are kickers? Doesnt MS hold the single season TD record and 2nd in single season passing yards? I'll have to check on that but he definitely should be on this list. Probably around 15 or so.

RB said...

7 = Iverson is not a fair thing to say. Stafford did not have the outgoing leadership of a David Pollack, but he has never been a ME, ME, ME guy. He has always said the right things and was always about TEAM over ME. Dammit, I wish he was a rah-rah Pollack type of player - we might have won a championship or 2 with him as QB. But, that is not his personality. And, he was still pretty damn good.

Otto said...

Iverson is more talented then Billups.....by far. But Billups wins Championships.

That is the comparison. Nobody said anything about MS being a ME ME guy...or domestic disputes.

GREAT JOB on the countdown JJ.
Maybe I can ruffle some more feathers on the current player countdown...

JJ said...

The main reason Iverson never won Championships was because of that attitude I described (on and off the court.) He may have wanted to win just as much as anybody, but he couldn't get past everything else he had going on inside his brain. All of a sudden the comparison of Iverson to Billups comes out because they were traded for each other and one team is doing better than the other one this season - never mind that Iverson is beyond is prime and Billups is still firmly in the middle of his. By the way, Billups was a Top 3 draft pick. Let's not act like he's one of these guys without an ounce of talent that has all of a sudden worked his way to the top. It took Billups 5 seasons to decide he wanted to become an All-Star himself.

Its a terrible comparison in my opinion...nothing that I've seen from Stafford leads me to believe that he is anything like Iverson. Just like nobody has any clue yet if Joe Cox has something inside of him that is anything like what Chauncey Billups has.